Jun 16, 2010

Peter Culley has an excellent point re: soccer. re: this video...

his Facebook update says simply "why I no longer watch soccer...."



in my comment to the post i basically asked if maybe this was one of the reason's America hasn't fully flown the soccer banner (obviously not the only reason, i've been told that this a somewhat new phenomenon, like 20 years or something right?) i mean, the theatrics on display in this video are pretty pathetic (and not uncommon). i think it's fairly safe to say that the US sports attitude is all about sucking it up, grinning and baring it, not cheating, being a good sport and hustling as hard as you can (and whatever other little league cliche you can think of)...i mean i LOVELOVE watching and playing soccer but i have a definite aversion to men whimpering/ crying/ whining/ pouting in sports...and then when it's exaggerated or downright fake like it mostly is in soccer it's a complete turnoff...i feel like shouting at these turds "act like men you fucking pussies!!!," and yeah that's a hyper-masculine reaction, but then i like my sports hyper-masculine (unless we're talking about Olympics gymnastics where the girls are infinitely more fun to watch)...and i get how this behavior plays into strategy, but now i'm circling back to what Peter originally posted, why he no longer enjoys watching soccer, and maybe this plays into why the majority (??) of Americans aren't very excited about soccer...cause at the surface i can totally see not getting excited about a sport that promotes (by not actively punishing) a strategy where men act like babies to tweak the clock or mess with defensive or offensive flow (or to just catch a breather)...but as Peter implies, it didn't used to be like this. so what happened? does anybody know when things turned for the worse? when things got so wussy? i'm sure there have been articles written etc. if you could explain this to me or point me towards some writing that's been done on this subject i'd be obliged...

also, i don't watch MLS, i'd like to but i don't get cable, and i definitely don't go to San Jose...but i'm curious, do American players act the same way in that league?

and finally, maybe this is all moot and the real reason American's don't like soccer is "because it was invented by Karl Marx, in Mexico, and the French are good at it..." -Gawker article this morning
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14 comments:

Logan Ryan Smith said...

1st off, the French aren't all that good at it.

Secondly, this kind of dive is definitely rare.

But, a yellow card is supposed to get issued for any kind of obvious dive/ time wasting. Just depends on if the ref caught it.


Thirdly, I think it's the Italian league and the Spanish league that especially ham it up whenever they get hit or tripped up a bit. But of course it's done in all leagues.

I would say there's less of it in MLS, except for the big name European players in the league.

And I would suggest going to a San Jose Quakes game. Live soccer is an experience unique unto itself.

Lastly, Americans cheat even more boldly, what with all the steroids and HGH and shit in baseball and the NFL.

Actually, on more lastly: Americans don't like soccer because it's a hard game to air on TV with little time for sponsors and so they haven't gotten exposed to it enough. Tho that seems to be changing with all the soccer-based cable channels, and Versus is possibly getting MLS games next season.

However, you'd be hard-pressed telling me Americans don't like soccer when MLS averages crowds not that much smaller than NHL and NBA games. I think the Bay Area just doesn't care, because I never heard a damn thing about the Quakes or any soccer, ever.

Here in Chicago we have tons of soccer pubs, I see people in Fire jerseys as well as Real Madrid jerseys and Chelsea jerseys, and all the pubs are having specials and events now to coincide with the World Cup.

And the World Cup final will be shown at Soldier Field where they're having an all-day event for it.

People in America love soccer. It's just in pockets, but growing each year. This World Cup should help it along even further.

12:33 PM
John Sakkis said...

logan. thanks for the weighty response...

you bring up a good point about the steroids and HGH and all that. but i guess i'm talking about on the field cheating. as in, actions on the field, in play, meant to cheat the game somehow...you'd have to agree that that's completely verboten in US sports...i mean, i guess when a guy is called safe but he's actually out and he doesn't say anything you can call that cheating (in play)...but that's also more on the Ump than the player...

i also agree that soccer is getting more and more popular at home...there are a ton of soccer bars in my neighborhood too, but no MLS bars yet.

about popularity, that's why i said maybe the acting thing is only one of the factors...i mean, until recently we didn't have a pro league...we didn't have soccer only stadiums...we didn't have talent. and yeah, with exposure the sport will get more and more popular. but still, i say this acting shit would be a huge obstacle for the casual american fan to get past...it's good to hear that american's in the MLS don't do that so much...that can only be a good thing.

so it's mostly a european phenomenon? how about latin america? or are they kind of like the MLS with a different style of play?

thanks for chiming in...you know you're my go to soccer guy.

12:52 PM
akp said...

Can I chime in even though I haven't yet seen the video because i'm at work and supposed to be working? But I get the jist of the dialogue and have to speak up about a similar phenomenon in the NBA now, "the flop". and how prevalent it's become (which i've noticed watching the sometimes-painful NBA finals.)

Can I quote my current Celtic (I can't say the "craziest Celtic" because there are a lot of crazy Celtics.) which I think speaks to the dramatic flair of the soccer flops, too?

Regarding the play during the 2008 NBA Playoffs, Mr. Rasheed Wallace stated:

“ All that bullshit-ass calls they had out there. With Mike [Callahan] and Kenny [Mauer] — you've all seen that shit. You saw them calls. The cats are flopping all over the floor and they're calling that shit. That shit ain't basketball out there. It's all fucking entertainment. You all should know that shit. It's all fucking entertainment. ”

On November 28, 2009, Wallace again made sports news wires when he claimed that the Toronto Raptors' Hedo Türkoğlu duped the officials into giving Wallace his fifth technical of the season by flopping:

“ They've got to know that he's a damn flopper. That's all Turkododo do. Flopping shouldn't get you nowhere. He acts like I shot him. That's not basketball, man. That's not defense. That's garbage, what it is. I'm glad I don't have too much of it left."

1:02 PM
Logan Ryan Smith said...

My impression of soccer in the Americas is that it's a more gritty, more physical and (sometimes) more ugly brand of soccer; so, I think that tends to lead to less bitching and whining.

Despite the "ugliness," I love the MLS and I started getting into FMF (Mexican) soccer toward the end of their last season.

Leagues like La Liga in Spain and Series A in Italy are a bit more about grace, style, and skill, and so they feel more obliged to complain when they think their "dance" has been impeded.

It's also an Italian soccer thing to win-at-all costs, which is a frustrating personality trait. Remember last World Cup where the Italian player busted up Brian McBride's (US player face? They pulled a lot of that shit in the last World Cup and will be turning it up again soon enough, I guess. That dive is only the beginning.

I can't stand the Italian team.

But, I repeat, that kind of blatant dive is fairly unusual. At least it's amusing, tho!

On the other hand, the English Premier League seems to be a great mixture of physicality and skill and that's probably the reason it's the most popular league in the world-- tho the Spanish league is close behind.

word verification: bootin

HA!

1:07 PM
François Luong said...

I can't stand the Italian team either. But seriously, Logan, the "French are not very good at it"? I remember it wasn't so long ago that Zinedine Zidane was considered the Pelé of his generation and that Thierry Henry was considered the best striker in the world.

As for flopping, the MLS is also guilty of it. The way they do it, as much as they do everything else, is a bit boring. I will also have to agree with akp, it happens much more often in the NBA.

I just saw the South African goalie being red-carded for barely grazing one player from Uruguay. Borderline flop from the latter, but the line between a flop and a serious injury in soccer is very thin.

2:02 PM
John Sakkis said...

peterson,

i've never heard of flopping. but then again i think basketball is the worst game ever...

i like what rasheed had to say..."this ain't basketball..." indeed mr. wallace...

xx

2:02 PM
John Sakkis said...

hi francois,

thanks for commenting...

curious about this "As for flopping, the MLS is also guilty of it. The way they do it, as much as they do everything else, is a bit boring."

could you elaborate more? how are the american's guilty of boring flops...?

wouldn't a boring flop be advantages? if indeed refs do card for blatant flops, wouldn't the pro want to make his flop as realistic and convincing as possible...wouldn't a boring flop be more convincing than a theatrical flop?

2:05 PM
François Luong said...

When I watch an MLS game, it feels sludgy. It's a drag. So when they fall, I'm thinking "who cares?"

In all seriousness, if you want tough soccer players, look at the North Koreans. They're robots.

2:09 PM
John Sakkis said...

hey francois,

have you seen this article...pretty awesome actually

http://gawker.com/5564759/why-you-should-root-for-north-koreas-world-cup-soccer-team

think it's amazing that the Chinese sent some of their own countrymen to the world cup to pretend they are North Koreans rooting for North Korea...i mean, that is totally surreal...genius! fail...

2:14 PM
François Luong said...

I was actually wondering how some North Korean fans managed to leave the country to root for their team. It's going to be tough for NK to beat Portugal though. Well, you never know. They had a pretty big upset last time they were in the World Cup.

2:27 PM
Logan Ryan Smith said...

hey francois, i was only kidding about the french.

however, i feel the same about the french soccer league as you do about MLS.

4:29 PM
François Luong said...

Logan,

That's only because we send our best players to foreign leagues (Thierry Henry first to the Premier League, then to the Spanish Liga, Ribéry to the Bundesliga, Zidane to the Italian league, then to Spain, etc.)

4:49 PM
Logan Ryan Smith said...

MLS is not the best league in the world, but it's gotten much better. And American players are starting to populate the EPL and other bigger leagues too.

I know the French can play soccer. Thierry Henry is going to play for the NY Red Bulls after the WC is over.

5:37 AM
François Luong said...

It feels like the New York Red Bulls is where European players go to finish their careers (see Youri Djorkaeff a couple of years ago). Not the MLS, just the New York Red Bulls.

9:59 AM

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